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A kinder, gentler +P ???
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Gizmo99
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Registered: 05-01-1999
Posts: 1421
Posted: 03-21-2000 08:10 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Just ran a search on Darrell's latest posts - he does seem to be less strident.

Thoughts?

Al

 

Oleg Volk
Moderator

Registered: 12-05-1999
Posts: 3461
Posted: 03-21-2000 08:47 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Treading lightly in view of increased tactical awareness? Grew up and got a clue? Got tired of competing with other clowns?
I like the change in +P.

Wish the retards ruining the Ms. Magazine experience got the same clue. Then again, some of the regulars there are as bad...

 

TheBluesMan
Moderator

Registered: 06-14-1999
Posts: 2548
Posted: 03-22-2000 07:51 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

So much for the "kinder, gentler" pluspee.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35068

Nice going George. You've impressed me with your ability to stay on the High Road, yet still put him in his place. +P seems to be advocating not training, and to just rely on your luck. WTF?!

 

George Hill
Administrator

Registered: 10-13-1998
Posts: 7975
Posted: 03-23-2000 12:37 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

I forced myself to tie 1/2 my brain behind my back... The High Road had nothing to do with everything that was deleted before posting!

 

George Hill
Administrator

Registered: 10-13-1998
Posts: 7975
Posted: 03-23-2000 07:02 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

In a very calm and serene zen-like way - I want to KICK HIS Freakin' ASS!

There - feel better now...


------------------
"I like the word 'indolence.' It makes my laziness seem classy." -Bern Williams

 

Oleg Volk
Moderator

Registered: 12-05-1999
Posts: 3461
Posted: 03-23-2000 07:44 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Better not: he might try to point-shoot your ass off and even he can't miss a target that big

 

Rich Lucibella
Administrator

Registered: 10-05-1998
Posts: 4619
Posted: 03-23-2000 07:54 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

George-
Great job. Sooner or later we're gonna ban him for smug.
Rich

 

Rich Lucibella
Administrator

Registered: 10-05-1998
Posts: 4619
Posted: 03-24-2000 07:23 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

That's it. He's done. He's a clown and I'm no longer willing to pay his advertising budget:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Darrell-
Your continued hit and run attacks on our Board detract from serious exchange. You continue with negative input only, failing to respond to honest queries. Can we agree that you'd be much happier elsewhere? I refer you to the following points:

- From the Policies: "we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At best you will receive one warning."
- I personally bear the financial cost of propagating your message of negativity and grandiosity. This I am no longer willing to do.

Your prompt response will be greatly appreciated.
Rich Lucibella




[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited March 24, 2000).]

 

George Hill
Administrator

Registered: 10-13-1998
Posts: 7975
Posted: 03-24-2000 07:35 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Was I over the top here: [Link to invalid post]
Was I?


He's outta here huh?
Dang - I was really wanting a response to my last post there...
Morbid Curiousity.

------------------
"I like the word 'indolence.' It makes my laziness seem classy." -Bern Williams

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited March 24, 2000).]

 

Gizmo99
Moderator

Registered: 05-01-1999
Posts: 1421
Posted: 03-24-2000 08:40 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Nope. George, you seemed dead on with that one.

*sigh* - I enjoy oposing viewpoints, but Rich hit the nail on the head. Terminal smugness.

Al

 

Oleg Volk
Moderator

Registered: 12-05-1999
Posts: 3461
Posted: 03-24-2000 09:43 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

H&P has been awash in short tempers and thin skins as of late. Maybe I ought to get my dominator suit out of the mothballs and crack the whip a bit. Hoping for adults policing themselves is obviously too much...

 

Erick
Moderator

Registered: 10-27-1998
Posts: 909
Posted: 03-24-2000 09:45 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

PlusP...Kinder & Gentler? How about just plain dumber. Take a look at: [Link to invalid post]

Quote: "But what Cooper failed to do was address modern street fighting and attempted to suggest military logic would suffice. He sort of lost the impact of the drug/gang culture that changed a lot of the rules of
the road."
and
"Today (he was upset and mentioned this in a recent column)he pushes Scout rifles, and discusses hunting and politics far more than self-defense. I feel he has been pressured by the HUT HUT HUT cammie wearing types to step aside for more Rambo like efforts."

This can't be one person, no One could be that obnoxious by themselves, at least I don't think I can.

 

Gizmo99
Moderator

Registered: 05-01-1999
Posts: 1421
Posted: 03-24-2000 10:37 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Ya know, I think the guys a schizo. Having the morbid couriousity to read his posts, a Cooperite he ain't. Part of what he said was complimentary to Cooper and the rest of the Front Sight Gang - but if you read his (PlusPee)posts he's rabidly anti Modern Technique.

Weird, weird, weird.

Giz

 

Scott Evans
Moderator

Registered: 12-06-1998
Posts: 540
Posted: 03-24-2000 02:46 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only


My basic rub with this guy has always stemmed from his unwillingness to present his views with a minimum measure of respect and curtsey.


------------------
ìThis is my rifle, there many like it but this one is mine Öî

 

Rich Lucibella
Administrator

Registered: 10-05-1998
Posts: 4619
Posted: 03-24-2000 03:08 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

I haven't bounced him yet. I've asked him to voluntarily leave. I suspect he'll demand that we throw him out. That I will do.

In any case, he's gone.
Rich

 

Schmit
Moderator

Registered: 03-10-1999
Posts: 1386
Posted: 03-24-2000 08:55 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Damn... and I was looking forward to his response to my last post directed at him (in reply to his responce to Georges Credentials)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

quote:

Originally posted by pluspinc:
You spent a day or two in a classroom. Such credentials are pretty slim for a foundation for an argument.


Much like one of your offered classes huh? However, if his were a two day class that is double the amount of time spent in your longest class... "Outdoor Advanced Handgun".


Guess I could asked the same question via e-mail and see if he responds.

Oh well... OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

 

Rich Lucibella
Administrator

Registered: 10-05-1998
Posts: 4619
Posted: 03-25-2000 10:20 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Schmit-
He wouldn't respond to your point. His habit it to ignore when cornered...ego can't handle it.

It's really unfair that I get to have all the fun with this pogue, but here's the last of it.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Darrell Mulroy wrote:

Fail to respond? To what? Nobody reponds to my requests to show a scientific source to sh ow that there is such a things as muscle memory reflex (nobody has) to to dispute a 92% miss rate (nobody has) or show a single study that video interaction training works (nobody has including mfgrs) etc. Negative? When I post photos as proof and they post words, I think I know where the validity lies. Financial cost? how so? You paid per post? Response? You are trying to cover YOUR ass at someone elses expense and fail to have the fortitude to share or tollerate other points of view unless they agree with yours and the chrony's that populate such forums.People that have access to guns shouldn't have such thin skins. I can imagine their reactions in courts. Strange I find acceptance in such jouranls as Law & Order Magazine and have problems here. I have letters from the CIA, Dept of Defense, U.S. Airforce (just trained some this week) and others on my "negative and grandisosity." I think I know which words I will embrace. When the DOJ says I'm an "expert in my field" and when the "California Jailers Associtation" requests me as an "Advisory Board" member I feel rather secure. Your "opinon" shall not breach that feeling. Life and death of self defense is not for the weak hearted. Call THAT negativity. I don't belong to groups that self-reinforce to feel good. I belong to groups concerned about LIVING. Some times they aren't related I guess. I shall post your note to my email base of students and invite the 782 of them to check out TFL. You can deal with them. Glad to help.
DM--
ttp://www.thefiringline.com
Simply the Finest Firearms Information Site on the Web

The above looks like "grandiostiy" to me.




<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Darrell-
None of us likes to be insulted, I know. However, aside from the fact that your grammar is embarrassing and your spelling atrocious, your inability to present a single idea without rambling, railing and ranting appears to be your trademark. As usual, your point is almost unintelligible amidst the detritus of your construction. However, I believe, if I pick carefully through your message, your points are as follows:

- You present anecdotal evidence to prove you have found the Holy Grail. If others cannot refute this with hard science, you conclude you're right. (I suggest an introductory course into the methods of inductive and deductive logic. Your contention is embarrassing to the educated.)

- You believe it is your birthright to spread whatever message you wish thru TFL. (Obviously, you don't understand how Web Host Services charge for discussion sites....yes, in essence and in fact, I pay for each increase in bandwidth....each message, if you will.)

- You feel that I lack fortitude and that you are simply promulgating an alternative point of view. (I'm not willing to provide a testimonial to my own intestinal fortitude...there's no room for a second ego when yours is around. As concerns the second part, none of the people I've spoken with even understand what your point *is*, other than the fact that you desperately need attention and adoration.)

- You feel that you must be right because you "have letters". (It follows that Gabe Suarez must be "more right". Likewise Harry Humphries. Likewise Walt Marshall. Likewise Clint Smith. Likewise Louis Awerbuck. Likewise Jeff Cooper. Each of these men disagree with your junk science. None of them have ever heard of you. I won't have you trashing our Members over your issues around personal recognition, or lack thereof.)

- If you can't play in my playground, you'll just send your friends in to trash it. (Now *that's* a grownup response. I would hope that, If I ever end up mistakenly in one of your classes, I'd be able to say my peace and politely leave, rather than trying to disrupt and destroy. But have it your way...send your students over. We'll introduce them to logic and professional conduct...your name will be forgotten in a week)

As you can probably tell, I don't like to be threatened. Have a great life.
Rich Lucibella
ps: "Grandiosity" deal's with one's ability to believe himself far greater than he is. Noting TFL as the "Simply the Finest Firearms Information Site on the Web" fails the test of "grandiose", since TFL is identified with it's *Members*, not it's owner. This is the type of faulty logic that spills over into every one of your pronouncements.



 

LawDog
Moderator

Registered: 09-14-1999
Posts: 2038
Posted: 03-25-2000 11:55 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Hmm.

I can't tell Rich--was that a stiletto or a broadsword?

Ian.

 

Gizmo99
Moderator

Registered: 05-01-1999
Posts: 1421
Posted: 03-25-2000 01:35 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

chainsaw - maybe a plasma cutter - Rich is a "techy" sort of guy..

 

Long Path
Moderator

Registered: 05-30-1999
Posts: 2336
Posted: 03-25-2000 02:54 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Rapier or foil. Parry, reposte, beat attack, moulenet, lunge, thrust.

Hearty, fully engaged, but completely and elegantly in control of the point of the cutting edge. Personal? Hell yes!

In foil and epee, he who has the greatest reach and control of his point wins. This requires you to have the self-awareness to know where (or in this case what) the point is.

(C'mon! My 2nd choice university didn't have a riflry team, okay? )

 

Oleg Volk
Moderator

Registered: 12-05-1999
Posts: 3461
Posted: 03-25-2000 07:29 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

I am sooo glad that the responsibility for dealing with PlusP isn't mine.

 

Rich Lucibella
Administrator

Registered: 10-05-1998
Posts: 4619
Posted: 03-25-2000 09:31 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

PlusP gets the last word on this one. I post it in fairness to him, unabridged. If you can wade thru it, it speaks volumes of the man:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>&gt; Darrell-
&gt; None of us likes to be insulted, I know. However, aside from the fact
&gt; that your grammar is embarrassing and your spelling atrocious, your
&gt; inability to present a single idea without rambling, railing and ranting
&gt; appears to be your trademark. As usual, your point is almost
&gt; unintelligible amidst the detritus of your construction. However, I
&gt; believe, if I pick carefully through your message, your points are as
&gt; follows:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
My editors of the magazines I've written for and the books I've had
published
sure agree on the grammar and spelling. But they PAID me anyway. Guess it
was my dazzling style. I didn't think a person had to be Hemmingway.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; - You present anecdotal evidence to prove you have found the Holy Grail.
&gt; If others cannot refute this with hard science, you conclude you're
&gt; right. (I suggest an introductory course into the methods of inductive
&gt; and deductive logic. Your contention is embarrassing to the educated.)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
None of the DOJ people I trained blushed. None of the 3,000+ students
I've had in the past few years blushed. And YES, if they can't refute with
hard science and only have a "theory" I am write. Four aces beat a pair
anyday. Interesting that such logic doesn't prevail. It does in ANY other
field. Crapola like goat tests and stopping power would be laughed out
of any other forum I can think of. Stop and think about that. My anecdotal
evidence has either a picture or scientific source or based on EXPERIENCE.
Sorry that isn't enough.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; - You believe it is your birthright to spread whatever message you wish
&gt; thru TFL. (Obviously, you don't understand how Web Host Services charge
&gt; for discussion sites....yes, in essence and in fact, I pay for each
&gt; increase in bandwidth....each message, if you will.)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
You got a bum deal. Talk to my master web page maker wife. She has
servers that do NOT charge for bandwidth. "tiffany@plusp.com" She can
have you up and running and save you money. I pay no band charge for
that monster web page of mine and never will. See, I already saved you
some money.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; - You feel that I lack fortitude and that you are simply promulgating an
&gt; alternative point of view. (I'm not willing to provide a testimonial to
&gt; my own intestinal fortitude...there's no room for a second ego when
&gt; yours is around. As concerns the second part, none of the people I've
&gt; spoken with even understand what your point *is*, other than the fact
&gt; that you desperately need attention and adoration.)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
My attention is based on my students and their experience AFTER they
leave class. That is more than enough. You probably won't believe this
but I have NEVER used my picture in an article or book unlike some of
the others. Isn't that amazing? With 300+ articles you'd think I would.
Talk about lack of ego. My picture isn't in any of my books and won't
be in those in the future. In fact I don't appear in my own video. I only
allow my image on TV shows. That's more than enough.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; - You feel that you must be right because you "have letters". (It
&gt; follows that Gabe Suarez must be "more right". Likewise Harry Humphries.
&gt; Likewise Walt Marshall. Likewise Clint Smith. Likewise Louis Awerbuck.
&gt; Likewise Jeff Cooper. Each of these men disagree with your junk science.
&gt; None of them have ever heard of you. I won't have you trashing our
&gt; Members over your issues around personal recognition, or lack thereof.)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
What does it matter if they ever heard of me? I don't see that makes much
sense. Do I need their approval? If I do the rules have changed. How do
I get this holy blessing? What good will it do me? I don't walk their
walk, or talk t heir talk. Junk science? The Mayo Clinic, Duke University
etc, will be upset to hear that. Some junk yard. You may not notice but
I have trained many of the Mayo staff specialists. Hell, ALL of the Mayo
Foundation computer staff have gone through our courses.
My graduates include Roger W. Sandvick M.S., PhD "Licensed psychologisst"
Includes the director of Forensic Psychology for the Minn., Dept of
Corrections.
Toss in Scott Johnson, M.A. LP head sexual offender Psychologist for the
Minnesota Dept of Corrections. I don't think they'd come to me for junk
science. Your definition of junk science is anything you don't believe in.
Try Dr. Elizebith Loftus of Washington State Univeristy, the foremost
specialist on
memory and false memory recall I've communicated with. How about
Dr. Lerhner of The University of Colorado at Boulder on genetics I've
communicated
with. I think they beat the goat test authorities and stopping power "trust
me I
just know this stuff so it must be right" logic types. At least I didn't
try to
inject drugs into some shooters (Ayboob pulled this one off) and try to pass
that
off as science. Maybe you need to jot him a note. He knows me. He called my

co-author (he didn't have testicles enough to call me) and asked him to ask
me
to "lay off of him." See how that works?

&gt;
&gt; - If you can't play in my playground, you'll just send your friends in
&gt; to trash it. (Now *that's* a grownup response. I would hope that, if I
&gt; ever end up mistakenly in one of your classes, I'd be able to say my
&gt; peace and politely leave, rather than trying to disrupt and destroy. But
&gt; have it your way...send your students over. We'll introduce them to
&gt; logic and professional conduct...your name will be forgotten in a week)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Logic? Like muscle memory reflex :-). Talk about JUNK science. You still
haven't found a medical source for it and nobody else has either. THAT is
junk science. Forget me name? Fat chance.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; As you can probably tell, I don't like to be threatened. Have a great
&gt; life.
&gt; Rich Lucibella

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Threatend? Now you are getting creative. If I threaten someone they will
know it and it will be crystal clear so Ray Charles can see it.
I'll make a peace offering of paying for a one year subscription to Combat
Hanguns for you. One second thought cancel that offer. That is what I do
to those I don't like. Sorry, old age.
So at least we can agree you dealt with this on a pure emotional level.
You don't carry a gun do you?


 

Long Path
Moderator

Registered: 05-30-1999
Posts: 2336
Posted: 03-26-2000 03:37 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Elementary logic is junk science? I suppose that he doesn't believe in Algebra, as quadratic formulas "aren't really provable." When I took Symbolic Logic in the Philosophy Department at U.T., I was shocked to learn that it was largely a pure mathematics class. Showed how much I knew... Now I know more. But I was 19, then.


How very, very odd.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone called Rich a shill for the Straussberg goat tests! LOL! You just can't escape those evil, ba-a-a-ad things! (snicker)

Rich, it was stand-up of you to let him have the last say. Maybe he'll be satisfied, and leave us alone.

Good riddance.

 

LawDog
Moderator

Registered: 09-14-1999
Posts: 2038
Posted: 03-26-2000 10:54 AM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

Well, those hundred-odd students that he's threatening to send our way should put us over the 5,000 member mark.

Pluspink will probably wind up at AR15.com preaching to the unwashed masses.

Friend of mine from a DOE Tac Squad has been listening to me gripe about Pinkie and has decided that he wants to take one of his classes.

He promises me a full report when he gets back. Should be interesting--John doesn't suffer fools gladly, and has never been known for his diplomatic ways.

I might ought to mention that John worships at the Altar of Cooper...



Ian.

 

Scott Evans
Moderator

Registered: 12-06-1998
Posts: 540
Posted: 03-26-2000 12:45 PM  Profile   Email     All Posts by Member    Edit/Delete      Staff Only

The man is all over the map sputtering like a junk car running on half its cylinders.

Too bad about missing out on all that free bandwidth and the one year magazine subscription though. If we only knew sooner we could have blindly worshiped +P and embraced his genius with out question. Oh the pain of regret over opportunity lostÖ. Sob NOT

 

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